I chose to start this article as a result. It will contain emails from people with direct experience with the Petsmart classes. The first emails are from an actual Petsmart instructor (who I will not name as she needs the money but hates the program).
If Petsmart wishes to comment on anything on this web page I will post their email without any editing.
Emails from a former Petsmart trainer. This person was semi retired, had competed with her dogs and dog well in the AKC obedience ring. She thought she would enjoy teaching people at her local Petsmart store. You can read here why she quit.
Hi Ed
I have the title of 'pet trainer' at Petsmart, makes me sick. First of all, I have titled a dog, really high scores too ... I am very proud of that. I have trained before ... with some real good people too ... proud of that too. I ask myself daily what was I thinking. Petsmart is a joke, it shames all trainers.
First let's start with the program reformatting. Years ago Petsmart hired some well known trainers to design a program for them. I trained and taught at one of the schools, the director of this school was involved with this design. I can tell you, our "pet" people left off leash with drops on recalls ... great program ... I love it.
I am not sure of how many years Petsmart used this program. At that time training of the trainers was a 'big' 120 hours. I am not sure of what when on during this training or in these classes. But, each trainer went though the program and was more or less on their own. Basically to do what they wanted in class. The 'head' trainer at my store ... has trained one dog though 'advance' at Petsmart and has not even been a trainer for one year ... note, her only experience is from Petsmart. She is the 'expert'. What had happened with this program is everyone was doing whatever they wanted, and depending on where you trained you got the good or the bad ... mostly bad. Corp did not want this, so August of 2005 the program was revamped.
The revamping is a tad bit odd. Here they had a program, instead of calling the original developers in to revamp. Corp collected the homework from the 'top trainers' in Petsmart. I do believe, Petsmart is still claiming that the program was developed by top behaviorists. In Petsmart your training ability is based on sales ... ONLY. From this homework the 'new and improved' ( there is a gag here) program was born.
I was the first to go to full training for the new program. From what I understand the other trainers had an 8 hour lesson in the new program.
This is how it went:
I was hired by an 'area trainer', who was not the 'area' trainer for my district. This area trainer is the number one trainer in Petsmart (most sales). He is also an AKC field judge, from what I understand. His area had it's own thing going, and honestly the dogs from those classes weren't all that bad ... considering they were trained in a store. This man only hires people with dog training experience ... that is why I was hired.
I was sent to my store. We also do something called 'books' ... in store training ... products in the store ... and dog and cat food. I will tell you the books are very slighted towards Petsmart products. I was also given a book called "Pet Training Instructor Accreditation." The text book portion is 123 pages covering Petsmart training, ethology, genetics, behaviors, learning theory, behavioral problems. adult learning, presentation, the classroom and SALES. All in 123 pages. In this book there is also a workbook that I had to fill out. I was given 16 hours to do this. Then my 80 hours of training began.
My area trainer..(teaching degree, taught a couple of years ... failed at teaching and then ran a catering/bakery service from her apartment ... yes you read that right) ... I will be nice ... only hires people WITHOUT dog training experience. ... she said that people who were in the Obedience ring can NEVER train a dog ... she left me speechless there ... I wanted to ask here how do you think I got there?
She only hired people with a teaching background or those who (suffered) though her classes. Most of the 'girls' are very young with teaching degrees ... little or no classroom experience and never reaching the professional level ... the majority of them are the most inept dog handlers I have ever seen.
I am not impressed with a 'trainer' who has her dog on a gentle leader ... for five years!!!! The area trainer ... has never trained any other method but Petsmart.The Petsmart method is the best ... I will remind you the program was just changed. She made every second of my life miserable. At one point she screamed at me ... you have to forget everything you know about dog training ... everyone you know knows nothing ... I am the only one who knows how to train a dog! As I am watching her scream at me ... I was looking at a book in her book shelf ... written by a woman I trained in NJ with (I am sure you can figure out who she is). Nothing for nothing ... my first show dog I hit 196's without a problem ... . Missy Expert Area Trainer ... had two dogs killed in 5 years by cars 'because they didn't listen to her'. OK. This woman is an area trainer ... no titles and dead dogs!!!!! I don't think the stupidest person on the face of the earth would 'train' in her classes if she made that public. Clue right there ... dead dogs ... two of them ... bad trainer???????
What I did in my training ... was everyday I was subjected to verbal tests from that 123 pages. By the way I have an Animal Science degree ... some of the area trainers questions were dead wrong ... but I went along with it. I had to watch a 45 min DVD on dog behavior. Then I was subjected to watching this women's classes. OMG ... it was pitiful. This babe put dirty balls in her mouth to demo how dogs pick up things and rolled over on the dirty Pet Hotel floor to demo how dogs rolled over. Her behavior in the class left me speechless. She believed that you had to show people what you meant ... sorry I don't need to see an adult roll over on the floor. Never have I seen anything like this. Idiot came to my mind. Then I had to student teach the program and not laugh.
Petsmart uses the term "cue" for exercises because the 'term command' is to harsh. Try to say that one and not laugh! I lived though the training ... somehow ... this woman has since been promoted to display manager ... she puts stuff on the shelves now ... she was the area trainer for five years. Like I said I will be nice about her.
Most of the time I was shaking my head. The new program is clicker training ... I call it training with a clicker. The clueless trainers really believe in this program. It is horrible ... totally horrible. I hate it, I hate training it ... I hate everything about it. At Petsmart we train positive only ... no corrections what so ever. The program for basic and puppy is the same seven weeks of loose leash walking ... Corp feels that is what people really want.
We teach sit, down, drop it, take it, leave it, shake hands (makes me sick to do that one), 'come' (I don't even want to go there ... I dread the recall class ... the way I am showing it ... is soooooooo wrong), we socialize and do a lot of shopping. Corp has moved some of the 'cues' (gag) into intermediate ... to keep them coming back. Wait is one of them ... these people have puppies and young dogs blasting out of cars into parking lots ... until intermediate ... but Petsmart feels they are doing right for the owner. I hate it, so do many of the owners.
I can't tell you how many times, my students have said show us what you really know. In my main store ... I have to train the program word for word. I do have a class at another store ... my puppies are doing stands for exams over there ... I am training at that store. What I really hate it the theory when the method don't work you keep on training that the same way the dog will 'get it'. Training to failure is never presented to the trainers. I stop my students when I see failure. I have been in the parking lot with a few of them ... showing them other methods. Petsmart trainers are not allowed to problem solve ... eh-eh is the magic word and time outs. It's a joke. "Difficult" dogs we tell the 'pet parents' (like that term?) to go to behaviorists. It hurts to teach this.
Gentle leaders are the cure ... but we are not allowed to talk about possible injury. If I hear it works like a halter for a horse one more time I will scream ... I did a survey of the six of them who stated that one ... none of them were ever near a horse. I have been ... I assured them halters do not look like that. Then there are those harnesses made by Gentle Leader ... I am not going to touch that one. We can use buckle collars and those nylon, martingale things, gentle leaders and harnesses. No slips or prongs. I am the evil one ... I am suppose to talk customers out of buying prongs ... not because the ones they sell are garbage ... but because they are bad. I use prong collars on all my dogs ... I make sure the customers leave with a proper fit.
Oh, and about prongs. They can really hurt your dog and make them bleed. Yep. I learned that when I was in training. I looked at her and said you would have product failure long before it made a dog bleed. I was spat at ... you're wrong ... Petsmart does not sell products that fail. OK. These people take themselves very serious.
Loose Leash Walking is done by holding the loop of the leash or worst yet
wrapping the leash around your hand. You must allow your dog to have that
6 foot of bubble. When the dog pulls you stop and say eh-eh ... you repeat
this over and over ... stopping every time the dog pulls. Some of the trainers
also feel that you should return to your starting point and start over. We
do this from week two to week seven in puppy and beginner. I will be nice
again about how I feel about this one. We intro heeling for a brief period
in week eight as a teaser so they enroll in intermediate.
I also have to sell everything. Potty pads make me want
to scream. I would
say about a bit more than a quarter of the class time is spend selling product ... garbage.
One week I have to spend 15-20 mins on grooming ... products and service ... I
hate that the most. Then there is the food ... arghhhhh.
If you notice Petsmart DOES NOT claim to be in the field of dog training or obedience. The classes are considered Pet Training and I am a Pet Trainer. Weasel words.
Petsmart does not train the pet trainers in emergency responses ... I am the only one is my area who knows what to do. That scares some of the trainers, that our employer does not even have respect for our safety. I can tell you, I have unsold classes because of the dog. I could deal with them but not Petsmart's way.
Then there is the Click a Trick class. I refuse to teach that one. I could not stand in front of 8 to 10 stating 'teaching your dogs tricks is really cool' ... not in this life time anyway. I was told I really need to take one of my dogs to take class ... like really ... I don't want my dog high fiving the judge because he was taught false behaviors in a clicker trick classes. To me a blazing recall is cooler than a dog flipping a light on. ARGHHHH.
Something else strange is going on there. All of the places that I have trained or been involved with,offered the Good Canine Citizen test to those who completed all the pet classes. Petsmart used to do this. But the AKC will not longer allow Petsmart to do so. In fact the AKC will not renew anyone's cert who works at Petsmart. We have not been told any details. But my coworker passed the test at Petsmart a year ago and still has not received whatever it is the AKC sends out. We took down the signs for the GCC test and it vanished from the program. We are not suppose to talk about it to the students. I know from my past experience, we built the GCC way up to the pet people ... we made a big thing out it. I take it as even the AKC does want ties with this training program!
My show dog passed away suddenly last Feb, cancer. I have a new puppy. I am not allowed to bring him to work with me ... he was not Petsmart trained (for a good reason). I went right into ring training ... unlike Petsmart's belief ring dogs make awesome pets. I took him there once after I worked him about three weeks ... my co workers were all amazed at how well behaved and well trained he was. I stood there saying he isn't even started. But I have much higher standards. My puppy is just starting and these people think he is well trained ... they have never seen a well trained dog!!! But I am training for points ... not coolness. My dog that passed would have blown them away.
As you can tell, I love my job. Training experience is not needed ... Corp wants you to be clueless so you believe in the crap (sorry). Training is secondary in the program ... the amount of classes you sell makes you a good trainer. We get paid commissions on sales, ... I am part time trainer I get 20% ... the rate goes up to 30%. I always thought your training ability was judged by a number in a ring ... not by a dollar sign.
But the target market is the clueless ... the doggy sweater wearing crowd. I cannot figure out why people go to a retail joint to train a dog, excuse me a pet. I cannot figure out why these people come into a chain store for advice ... I cannot think of the last time a sales clerk gave me good advise. I can't figure out why I work there.
Anything else you want to know ... I tell you what ever you want ... please do not use my name.
Thank you for allowing me to vent ... I hate the place. I have a puppy class that finishes this week, I like the people ... I think I am going back into early retirement and devote all my time to really training my pup.
Barb
Barb's second email
It's me again ... the program ... you got it You have to see the book, you will laugh your self silly ... there is a column in the right ... it has a talking head with say ... telling us what to say ... it points on the activity ... hint has a light bulb ... and handouts ... the book even tells us when to tell the students to go home ... it's bad.
We allow the pet parents to train on either side ... training on the left is "old school." The clowns who wrote this need to read up on some ring regulations. Like I said I have trained and taught pet and we were pretty anal about being on the left ... this is a mess because you have to explain things twice and it throws me off when a right side is having issues.
Puppy and beginner are exactly the same ... puppy from 10 weeks to five months and beginner over 5 months
The beginning of each class I ask every one how was the week and answer questions and address problems (if they can be by Petsmart methods or else I hedge around them)
Week One: Introduction, Cradle and Massage (aka: settle), How We Train (we talk about reward based training),Go over equipment allowed and not allowed in class and what you may need, Cues/Markers/Release Words, Intro Clicker. Load the clicker, Teach 'watch me', go over potty training (even with adult dogs ... sell those potty pads)
You asked about corrections we do not teach any sort of correction over than the eh-eh word ... that is covered in markers ... negative markers. Yes in the only verbal marker corp wants the students to use ... I tell them to use what comes natural.)
Week Two: review of week one, Discouraging unwanted behavior (jumping, digging, chewing, barking), speech on socialization to other dogs and puppies (Petsmart sponsors dog parks), pass the puppy or dog, the do's and don't's of collars, Teach sit, Teach loose leash walking. (According to the book the hint for LLW is that I am suppose to pantomime a scene of being dragging down the road when walking ... duh.)
Note: whenever I talk the class must cradle and massage
Week Three: review, practice week 2 cues, Teach take it/leave it, LLW with sit, speech crate training (even with adult dogs) and socialization to other dogs and puppies, Teach 'say hello' (dogs meeting on LLW), Teach drop it and down (we teach the Sphinx style own because the hip roll requires physical contact ... I can't even remember what I am suppose to say because it is so silly.)
Week Four: Review, Practice sits and downs, the dreaded grooming speech ( I am suppose to pass around my grooming supplies ... I don't none of mine come from Petsmart and corp does not allow us to write them off ... so in my class i don't subject my students to dog brushing) we also plug the 'salon' here (they do hair do's at Petsmart not breed clips ... many people leave in tears), Teach 'come when called' (makes me sick how I am suppose to train it ... hint dogs running down the aisles) and teach Stay ( duration 5 counts only by side)
Week Five: Review, practice week three, talk about socialization to other animals, LLW around store with socialization to other animals (we sit in front of the fish, birds etc ... I hate this one ... a lot of the students just think I take them shopping for another pet ... yep ... that is the intention), work on sit and add down stay (duration only 5 count goal is 30 count by next week), speech about fading the lure, teach come when called with sit.
Week Six: review and practice week 5, speech about jumping (I love this one ... I train my dogs to jump), Explain sit for greetings, LLW with sit for greetings, Speech about nutrition (praise Petsmart brands), teach shake hands (I really hate that).
Week Seven: review and have class demo behaviors from past classes, Practice LLW/greetings, cradle and massage, work on shake hands, combine sit and down with stay, combine take it/drop.(this is like an intro to click a trick, sorting laundry ... spare me) Speechless.
Week Eight: review and practice, teach puppy push ups (even with adult dogs), intro to 'heel", play station to station relay, sales pitch of intermediate class.
Intermediate ... the dogs have to pass a test to get in ... something like 10 sits in a row ... because this class is tough ... lol.
Week One: intro of self and students, talk about program, review puppy and beginner behaviors, play station to station relay, talk about juvenile behaviors, talk about adding distractions (like Petsmart isn't a distraction?), add a distraction to sit (holding a toy then placing the toy on the floor), teach wait.
Week Two: review and practice, teach heel part one, take a brain break, teach come with distractions (the trainer holds the dog as the handler walks away, this is how we train the recall ... speechless ... now we put a toy down in the aisle), practice LLW.
Week Three: review and practice week two, practice stay adding distractions (goal is to bounce a (Petsmart) tennis ball around dog), add right turn to heel, brain break, review markers and release words.
Week Four: review and practice week three, Teach on your bed (I don't want to discuss this one), brain break, adding a left (u turn) to heel, brain break, adding distance to stay (goal for week is 6 feet)
Week Five: review and practice week four, work on heeling, teach stand, brain break, come when called with more distractions
Week Six: review and practice week five, practice on your bed adding distance, add stay to stand, brain break, teach a trick, stay with duration, distance and distractions.
Week Seven: review and practice week six, work on tricks, work on heeling and LLW, brain break, work on-on your bed duration, distance, and distractions.
Week Eight: review and practice week seven, play single station relay, play person to person to relay, practice come when called, play simon says, trick demo, sell advance class.
Advance
Week One: intro, discuss class, review of basic behaviors, meet and greets, accept a friendly stranger, sit for petting, brain break, LLW two by two.
Week Two: review and practice, meet and greet, stand for exam, play tic tac toe (don't ask), out for a walk (another shopping trip), brain break, stay with distance and distractions (6 to 10 feet)
Week Three: review and practice, return to heel (set up, finish, swing whatever ... finally ... the third week of advance ... arghhhhh), a drop in the bucket (don't ask), come when called, brain break, reaction to another dog.
Week Four: review and practice, meet and greets, reaction to distractions, spoon relay(again don't ask), teach an advanced trick, teach touch, brain break, practice come when called and stand stay.
Week Five: review and practice, heeling through a crowd, teach a trick, brain break, work on stay with distance and distractions, who stole the cookie.
Week Six: review and practice, trick demo, walk the course, water relay, graduation.
It's over. Note advance is totally geared towards the GCC test ... which Petsmart doesn't do anymore. I won't even go in to the Click a Trick class. All of this came directly from my teaching manual. It's the summary ... there are written speeches in this book I am suppose to make ... I am suppose to talk about 'doglish' ... hmmmm. This is the new and improved program, as far as I know every train in the country is suppose to be teaching this. Corp goal is to have every one on the same page so if a customer moves cross country ... they can run out and find a Petsmart and never miss a beat. We under the watchful eye of corp ... they send 'spies' out to make sure we are teaching this. From what I understand, very few of the trainers (if you want to call them trainers) that were here before the program change are not happy with this. It is bad.
You asked about what do we do if there is a problem ... well, I am one of the few that have experience in what to do ... but we can't. I am very careful with what type of temperaments I put into my classes because I don't want problems. I can't assist the "pet parent" in better handler skills (not in the program), we are not allowed to muzzle dogs (it may freak some one out), we are not allowed pepper spray (I have military grade spray on my key chain), we have to just stand there. The magic word is to say eh-eh ... we are NOT ALLOWED to do any type of physical corrections what so ever. I have seen some strange things done by my co-workers (reminder she has trained one dog using the Petsmart method through advance and then became a trainer ... she has been a trainer for almost a year ... she reads tons of books on learning theories, hence expert.) I have seen her use her own dog as the hump-ee and used the eh-eh word to make the humper stop in a private lesson. I have seen her use the eh-eh word when there has been fur flying. One time she had a problem with three dogs ... a JRT mix was 'bullying' a young boxer and a yorkie. She made those three do the famous meet and greets ... she felt that the yorkie and boxer needed to 'get over it'. Mind you none of these people are good handlers (they train at Petsmart), ill fitted buckle collars, slippery tile floor ... it was ugly ... nor was there a need for this. We are not really allowed to put customers out of class it effects our sales and commissions. (We have a weekly quota of classes to sell). We just have to deal with these dogs ... like I said ... when some one comes to me complaining of a dog problem I ask the customer to bring the dog in before enrolling ... most of the time it is cluelessness on the owners part and the animal is manageable ... but a few times ... I would not allow the dog in my class. The behavior was beyond what we are allowed to handle. I was reamed for losing a sale. Safety is an issue here ... just selling. Selling privates to customers with dogs like this is out ... we have to stick to the Petsmart methodS (even in privates) ... eh-eh and time outs ... I can't do this to people ... first of all it is BS, it doesn't work and I don't want to feel guilty if some one gets hurts.
Someone mentioned the ex-pen gig ... yes that is what we do ... pen the offending party in ( and hope it doesn't leap over the pen). Another thing that is in use in the spray bottle of water ... I have a personal issue with that one I don't use it ... there are times in my dog's live I need to use tick spray. The other trainer in my store uses it all the time ... I have witnessed some responses she didn't expect ... it was pretty funny/ One of the other trainer sprays Bitter Apple into the dog's mouth. Like I said I avoid the problem dogs ... it's easier and I am not going to risk myself, a student or some one's dog for that 20.00 commission.
The whole thing is a joke. We have a customer who comes in. He is doing privates with one of the area trainers. This man has a cattle dog which is pulling on lead and barking at other dogs. So in his privates, he was put on one of those harnesses and was told to walk around with a spray bottle and hose the dog down every time he does it. Leaves me speechless ... worse yet the guy is doing it. This is not training to me.
This area trainer claims to be an AKC cert'ed trainer (HUH???), retired military K-9 trainer (he is in his early 30's ... numbers don't work here), competes in and is a trainer of Schutzhund, he claims to be a judge, he also claims to be an AKC judge ... (but never even did AKC Novice) ... does agility too. I think he is blowing a lot of smoke. He has his dogs on those Gentle Leader no pull harnesses ... I even saw his 9 week old puppy on one ... sorry I have a problem with some one who claims to be a trainer, using that kind of equipment. When I was in training with this guy ... it took me a few minutes to figure out what he meant by 'tricks' ... he was saying we train our dogs tricks ... I finally realized he meant exercises. He showed me how I should do the recall ... he told me this is how he does his ... hard to explain but it is a big fat DQ ... and he told me that the recall was so special it should only be trained one time once a week ... not to sour the dog. Speechless.
I have a lot of thoughts on the Petsmart training method ... other than it stinks. I have heard Petsmart had to change the program to keep PETA away ... ok sounds good? But I really don't understand going so far from the norm.
Petsmart is really putting a dent in the clubs and private trainers in the valley. The club has cut the classes in half, my trainer is not getting the beginners she use to, several places have closed. Petsmart is visible to the clueless and it is a bargain. One of the things I am suppose to do ... is talk customers into leaving where ever they are training to come here. I can't. I just figure where ever they are training has to be better.
Very rarely do I bring my dog in ... as I said he is not Petsmart trained so I really am not allowed ... and I do have him on a prong right now. But there are numerous reasons to keep your dog out of that place. I'll start with Banfield, most Banfield's do not have private entrances, the new store design is set up with the clinic in the back. Arizona has several PARVO SEASONS. The infected animals walk though the store with their clueless owners and they also check out at the Petsmart registers. Petsmart does use bleach or Parvosol to clean ... good reason to stay away. My shoes stay outside and I change before I touch my dogs. Parvo gives me the creeps. Second is liabilty. As some one else posted, they saw an outburst in Petsmart. This does happen ... but the pet owner not Petsmart is responsible. From what I have been told, Petsmart does pick up the tab but then the Corporate lawyers come after the owner. I have homeowners and an umbrella ... but in the area of the country I live ... there are many people that legal residence is questionable and I doubt these folks have homeowners ... for the outing at Petsmart ... it's not worth the risk. In the case where the dizzy trainer hosed the dog down and the dog turned on her ... the owner of the dog would be sued ... the dizzy trainer is not a fault.
I am not suppose to talk about my experience with customers, who and where I trained or being in the ring. As by co-worker pointed out we all have equal training. Fret not on this one. But what is all comes down to is you get what you pay for ...
On the daycare place ... what a joke. My store doesn't have one, the store I trained in did. I was speechless on that one too. I observed the handler in the fish tank like room for large dogs. The room has windows around it, so the customers can watch the doggy's play. The room had an intact Rottie, an intact Akita, and another larger male mix breed. These dogs got into a tiff, it was not a pretty sight. The girl had her back on this ... there was nothing she could do about it ... there is no pepper spray here ... she was writing her daily report. The "pet parents" that drop their dogs off, get a report on who and how their dog played during the day ... the handlers are more interested in note taking than keeping the peace. When the dogs are 'bad' they get put in time outs ... if they exceed the number of allowed time outs for the day ... they must remain in their suite or crate ... and mom gets a note ( I am serious) ... too many notes home to mom and you are not welcomed back for playtime. Some where, I think some forgot these are dogs we are talking about! I just don't get this whole thing of day camp anyway ... another thing I would never risk my dog over. Another thing with the daycare and hotel ... in that store there is no outdoor time. The dogs are using the floor in the play rooms to go. The room for large dogs has a potty room built off it ... yeah, you read that one right too ... for what ever period of time you leave your dog in that place they do right on the floor. Do you know how many people complain that when the dog returns home it is going in the house ... well, duh ... I wonder why. I really don't understand why people leave their dogs in a place like this.
Please don't use my name. What else do you want to know???? I had to sign a non-compete for 6 months after my employment terminated ... that I will not train dogs ... like I would ever admit this ... I am not a proud Petsmart person.
I want to train my new pup, your sport ... but no one takes me serious because of my breed. My dog that passed the trainer loved he said he would have been a feather in his cap ... but I went AKC. I would like to talk to you about this ... maybe you can point me the right way ... because I am dead serious about this.
Barb's Third email
Hey Ed ... I pick up what we give out for homework for you tonight. The homework is now controlled by corp ... I got all the classes for you. I maybe able to get a book for you Thursday when I go over to the other place.
I lost my mind in my class tonight. I got sick and tired of these people trying to get their dogs into position ... I broke the rules and taught them set up tonight ... the 5th week of basic instead of in advance ... I could not take it anymore! I also taught wait tonight. I let them vote on this ... walk around the store shopping or learn something that is useful. The customers are always right so I taught what the group wanted.
You had to ask about Click a Trick ... arghhhhh. I flat out refuse to have anything to do with that. Personally, I see no use in tricks nor have I or will I train tricks. It goes some thing like this ... this is the class you take after leaving intermediate and your dog isn't ready for the advance program (you have seen the outline of the advance program ... not very difficult) ... 'just think how you can impress all your friends with your dog doing all kinds of really cool tricks'. We are suppose to say that, but I am sorry and excuse me that gets the big oooooh puke/hurl from me. I was told I should take my Golden to that class ... he is my next ring dog ... I was reminded that I should take one Petsmart Class ... all the trainers do and I feel sorry for them. I offered one of my wolves ... but they are not welcomed at Petsmart ... how about you sending me one of your dogs to take into that class????
Click a Trick is a 6 week program. Trick training with a Clicker. There is one going on Sunday morning ... I am waiting for blood shed ... these dogs are off leash in that little area and it seems to get heated in there.
The first week is orientation. Learning and clicker theories and the name game is taught.
The next five weeks include: around (walk around a tree or pole), give paw, crawl part 1 and 2, spin, bow, roll over, wave, and back up and bow. That's the book. But different things are taught: ring a bell, jump though a hoop, turn on a light, and I think open a door. I don't really get involved with this. The women who trains this takes it way too serious for me and honestly I am not impressed with this nor do I think it is cool.
I don't train with a clicker. Years ago I taught my Pyr the UD hand signals using the clicker ... she responded well to the clicker. My step son went to town with the thing and Lola came running to the sliding glass door. And the child said she was having seizures and 'spazzing out' ... .no she was doing a loop of false behaviors ... the UD routine ... when she heard the clicker ... when the reward didn't come ... she looped the behavior ... I had to give her the jackpot reward to stop the loop. I had a couple in one of my classes ... that when ever they clicked the dog sat and high fived ... they were besides themselves. They said the dog never did that before ... then I found out they took that Click a Trick class. I told them to toss the clicker and stop with the high fives. Plus, I feel the Clicker has no place at Petsmart. Many of the people we deal with either never owned a dog or a really just poor handlers. Many of them can't handle the leash, the clicker, the treats, and the dog in the store. In our store we have a really low use of the clicker, in other stores the students are using them right into advance.
Without a doubt I really NEED that Focus DVD. In fact, I will be owning the entire collection. I am taking you up on your offer ... let's start with Focus. I am going to scrap the forced retrieve this time around. My last Golden did well with it ... but I am dealing with a different personality .
In Anne Paul's class, the first 8 week section we worked on attention. The 8th week we took ONE step in heel. Attention is so over looked ... I can tell by the pictures on your website ... your method works. As corny as it sounds, an attention heeling dog is a moving work of art! I always had a 1-2 point reduction on my on leash heeling ... never lost a point off leash.
Since I am venting, I really like all the tips you posting for finding a trainer. One of the things I am find from my personal experience is trainers who claim the use of methods. Annoys be to no end. I know I am a rare person because of who I trained with. I can't tell you how many times I have heard this is one or the other's method ... and sat there with a dropped jaw. I trained those methods first hand ... I sit there going what are they doing? In the one case, I later found count the one women was out here 15 years ago to give a clinic ... going to one clinic or reading a book ... doesn't count. This really drives me nuts. People really have to ask tons of questions about how and when the method was learned.
I am working with a trainer now. I have to replace her. She claims to use a combo of Diane's methods (not true) and the Koehler method (not sure of the spelling). I have never seen the real Koehler method ... just people who claim to train it ... what I see is not good. She is rough on the dogs. Her own dogs are not happy, driven workers. Wow, on the Figure 8 ... wow ... the right circle is a serious of harsh prong pops. Running and lifting your dogs over the jumps ... on a prong ... this is hard for me to lift my 78 pound dog with one arm anyway. I question what this women is doing. She is aware of who I have trained with and assures me I will get better scores. I think not. I see confusion, stress, and lack of drive when we are in class. At home I train the way I know and what worked for me before ... and he is happier. I am a little concerned that he is losing his drive to train.
I am going to post for a trainer on your site. I am just a little worried because of my breed. I have that strike against me and the Petsmart thing doesn't really help my cause. I ask myself everyday ... what was I thinking?
Ed, anything you want to know or anything you would like to verify about Petsmart I will be glad to tell you what I know. Just like I said leave my name and location out of it. I tomorrow night is my last class ... I am leaving that place ... I can't do it anymore ... it's wrong.
Later!
Barb
Barb's 4th email
Morning Ed ... you got me on a roll. I am sorry for not posting this right to the site, I do not feel comfortable with that being I have to post my name out there!
I thought of a few more things ... I feel bad for you ... I am totally venting at you. I really don't like my job.
Now, the issue of titles was brought up. I am one of the few that has titled a dog. In fact I was told I was the 6th person in the entire company, don't know how true they is ... but if it is true ... it's sad. BUT, I was into dogs long before Petsmart started their lame training program. From what I have seen very few 'trainers' even know about events and many trainers have mixed breed dogs. In fact, rescue is real big ... Petsmart does a lot of community service in that area ... good or bad. I was told by one of my co-workers that I really need to get a rescue dog. That left me speechless. I have four dogs ... two are his ... they do fall into the mix breed thing (wolves, and trust me they are trained to a higher level than any Petsmart dog), my Pyr, and my Golden (this is why people in your sport don't take me serious ... but I am very serious). Having a dog that I am able to compete with is important to me ... which blows the crew away. Training is important to me and I train for numbers ... sorry but that is the way I was groomed ... the number means more to me than the title.
Yes, I have been insulted right to my face. You Petsmart people ... the bimbo's with 40 hours of training (it's 80). When I get insulted I bring them over to the picture of my dog ... with his blue ribbons and high in trial ribbon ... even the clueless know what a blue ribbon means and I keep a copy of my listing in Front and Finish. After this I usually get ... why are you here ... I have been told by numerous people that I would be a much better trainer outside of Petsmart. Yes, I would be because I am not a trainer at Petsmart ... more like a con artist used car salesperson.
I do agree with Corp's theory that you don't need experience to be a trainer at Petsmart, they believe you can train anyone to train a dog. I saw that in print. I agree 100%, in fact personally my job is causing me MORAL conflicts. I want to do 'the customer right' and I am not. I am not allowed to use my experience in my classes ... I do slip it in ... but I am suppose to teach word for word what is in that damn book ... I don't know how they expect me to handle all the typo's and bad grammar! Most people enroll because they have leash issues and then we beat the loose leash walking to death ... 'it's the hardest thing to teach your dog' ... we start there. Yeah, I agree that it is the hardest thing and the most worthless thing. I always tell my puppy students I would rather teach directed jumping because everyone would leave with some degree of success. I am asked over and over why are we doing this ... because corp said so. I am asked over and over do you train your dog this way ... well yes and no ... I do use reward and positive methods ... but I correct.
I don't know how true this is. Years ago, Petsmart had "real" trainers come in to the stores and run classes. This was unique to this area, because of corp. From what I was told, the classes had a real good response and it was 'real training'. I was told money wise Petsmart was out of the loop ... it was just the trainer's gig. Apparently, corp felt there was money to be made hence the store of the corp program.
I was told this week I really need to start hanging out with the other trainers, because I would learn a lot about training. I almost laughed right in that person's face. When it comes to this ... I only hang out with those who will add VALUE to my training or increase my points. What are these people going to do for me?????? No value here ... Petsmart people aren't even good for a laugh. Now I am getting annoyed ... LOL.
Did you know that the dogs in the Petsmart commercials and print ads are not Petsmart trained dogs? Betcha, that doesn't come as a surprise. I met two women here, that Petsmart commissioned to train dogs for their ads ... because Petsmart trained dogs just don't cut it. That alone is a statement about the training program. That is pretty lame when a 'trained' dog can't even sit for a still shot.
One of the things we are suppose to push is socialization. Yeah, your doggy is suppose to play with other doggies. Let's look at that for a second ... Petsmart states that is great ... Petsmart sponsors dog parks ... Petsmart has vet clinics in the stores ... brilliant? Both of us have seen what happens at events with experienced handlers ... it's pretty scary. I am the outcast on this one too. I do not let my dogs off leash near other dogs, except to work. This play thing is out of control. I want my dog to be social enough to ignore other dogs ... period. Injury and dog fights are never taken into consideration. My sweet looking Golden was raised by wolves ... he does prey take down ... and neck rolls ... ... should I really unleash him to play ... I don't think so. Plus I am grooming him for events, do I really want a dog that is off leash and has been at parks playing with dogs ... never. Do I want my dog to be in a very small enclosed area with adult dogs off leash ... hell no ... eh-eh don't work. My coworkers think that I am 'mean' because I keep my dog away from other dogs and I do not allow him to greet other dogs. I don't think my dog suffers, he focuses on me ... and that is what I want.
When someone walks into the store with a slip or prong collar on I am suppose to run right over to them and tell them the evils of those collars. Most of the evil I see is an improperly fitted piece of equipment. I am suppose to talk customers out of buying prongs, slips, and shock collars. My coworker, who has never used the equipment gives the customers the riot act and I love it when they ask ... why do you sell these thing if they are so bad???? Good question for corp.
I am suppose to run over to customers when I see grocery brand food in their carts and tell them they should be feeding a high end feed. Again the customers ask if that food is bad why do you sell it. Another good question for corp. I think that is rude to begin with. I have seen people come in with bags of pennies to buy cans of Alpo, because that was all the money they had and the dog had to eat ... the woman I saw doing this was crying and didn't know how she was going to eat ... I paid for her dog food.
I am suppose to be able to fit doggy's for sweaters and outerwear. Gimme a break.
One of the other people posted something about required 6 months of training and cert with the APDT. No, 80 hours of Petsmart training and you have your accreditation. Petsmart WANTS you to forget EVERYTHING you know. Like I was told, it's worthless ... naw ... priceless.
We as trainers are required to meet sales quotas 2% for the store's total sales. Corp feels that the majority of fish and cat owners also own dogs ... that need to be trained the Petsmart way. Petsmart business objective is to make a bigger move into the services ... grooming and training ... due to competition in the pet product section. Apparently Wal-Mart and Target are considered competitions. I can understand why ... the prices at Petsmart are a bit high. Even with my discount, I buy very little there ... I don't like the quality of the products that is sold there, plus I can shop elsewhere cheaper. I hate seeing the first time dog owner stocking up there ... when Wal-mart is cheaper. Petsmart's motto is "total lifetime care of your pet" ... the training program tries to reinforce that.
We have the one method works for every dog. All dogs can be trained equally and we can train anything. Work through shut down and failure. I don't agree with is at all. I refuse to line my class up and have them all shake hands ... that is down right stupid. I hate it.
The question was raised how we handle problems. Well, silly the eh-eh word is the magic word that cures all woes. That is how it is handled ... eh-eh. Most of the trainers use the spray bottle or the shaky can ... soda can with pennies. I really question the customers when they start talking problems ... like I said I have sent people else where due what they said. Other dogs I asked the owners to bring the dog in so I can see them before they enroll. I don't want any problems. Other places I have trained allowed muzzles ... we don't. Petsmart's view is the dog needs to be socialized. I did have one case, in my first class, the owner failed to tell me that the dog bit everyone ... that came into his house including his kids ... he than stated everyone was afraid of the dog. I did not know that and I was using the dog as a demo and he turn around and nailed my hand ... I reacted by hanging the dog, on a Gentle Leader (worked good for that) ... yes, it was wrong of me ... I agree ... bad trainer. It was a slight hang ... even still out of Petsmart's realm. But it was my reaction. The class almost fell off the stools. There are no aggressive dogs only dogs that need to be socialized ... lala land.
As far as the training goes. I misunderstood what method means. To me when some speaks about training a method one is referring to the manner in which the exercise is trained. NO. Method to Petsmart is classroom presentation. Not that I needed to be shown how to get a sit ... but that was not addressed. It was classroom presentation. The person who I 'trained' under felt that every one needed to be addressed as if they were 6th graders and she put on a show like she was the village idiot ... the class room method that seems to be desirable is one of class clown/village idiot. I almost died. As a consumer I would have left the class, I was not entertained by the behaviors displayed by the trainers. I am a little more serious, my training background was a little more serious. I was reamed for not teaching exactly like my trainer ... no the actual exercises but not rolling around on the dirty floor. I was told I was way too serious. I was also cited for be 'too technical' of a trainer ... again look at my background. My students ask me the whys and they all tell me they love when I explain things because they I can give them the exact reason why ... and I always explain to them what is expected in the show ring and how it is applied in the real world ... and they get it. I will not speak to these people like they are children.
While I was doing this 80 hour training gig ... I had to fill out this workbook. Part of it included walking around the store asking this pet people, questions ... I felt like a jackass. One of the parts I had to work on was link training, and I had to explain what types of things can be link trained and how. So I wrote how to link train the recall, the drop on recall, and the retrieve over the high jump. Missy Area Trainer ... AKA the dog training expert ... had NO CLUE to recall meant ... had to explain that ... she claimed she never heard of the term recall ... scary. I then had to explain what the drop on recall was ... she said that was really stupid and she couldn't see the point in that. We didn't even get to the last one ... she was a bit annoyed with me ... she told me I was all wrong ... .these things were useless and that I was suppose to explain link training for tricks. I didn't even know what to think ... except that she was dangerous.
Another part of my training was collar education. After being reamed about prongs collars ... the expert took me over to the electronic collar section. I was shaking in my boots on this one. I have never used the product, so I am limited. Missy Area Trainer took me by surprise on this one. She started saying how good they were. I was dumbfounded on this one, first I wondered if she took her meds that morning then I was really worried that she used the product. She started to tell how great they are for dogs that blast out of the front door and chase cars. She must have know just by the the look on my face ... that I was melting down at this point. She snapped at me, how would you handle that. I told that a wait, maybe a sit stay at the door, that the handler needs an education in leash laws ... I told her I thought that was more of a poor handler issue than a dog problem. Smoke came out of her ears and she stormed away. I found later, that two of her dogs had the habit of bursting out of the front door, because she could not control them, and neither dog responded the her recalls ... both of these dogs had car chasing issues ... both of these dogs were hit by cars and killed right in front of her. OH.
I am the 'part time trainer' ... therefore I am lower than dirt, I am the titled one. The woman I work with Trained by Petsmart. I was watching her handle her dog in the store. It was pitiful. She is just a bad handler, someone with a well mannered dog on street. I approached her in a nice way and offered to teach her some footwork and fronts and finishes, so she would look a little more polished. I nicely explained to her that she and her dog are her product and a product of her trainer ... if she was more polished she would have a nicer presentation. She said to me 'that is show stuff and it has no place here'. OK.
This woman and I had a chat about titles. I told her a trainers titles and scores are really important to me when I am looking for a trainer. I told her titles are scores are one of the ways to judge someone's abilities. She looked at me and told me I was wrong, it's the amount of sales that trainer makes.
Someone had mentioned the hosing down of dogs in the store with the water bottle. Common practice. This is one of the ploys the trainers use to break into a sales pitch. I hose your dog down get him to stop barking, pulling or whatever it is ... I am a great trainer ... buy a class from me ... just think about how much I can show you in 8 weeks. I am waiting for a customer to slap one of these trainers.
Another trainer that I am is contact with is all of about 20 years old. She grew up around dogs (haven't we all?), her mom is a dog trainer, her mom is one of those ADPT people ... she knows everything there is to know about dogs. She is a great trainer! She has a mix breed, like many of the trainers, neither she or her mom has ever been tilted ... but the are great. I am an adult, a consumer ... personally I would laugh at a kid in a store telling me that ... this is what we are dealing with here. I was in that store a man came in with a deaf boxer pup, he was having problems with the dog. I told the guy to get on the net or phone and start interviewing trainers for experience with deaf dogs. The child butted in, and said she knows how to train a deaf dog and sold him a class. After he left she told me she has a book she can read on training deaf dogs. Speechless.
I did not personally witness this, the woman I was in training with told me this one. When she went over to her store, the 'lead trainer' was a child of 18 years old. She flat out refused to work for the child, so she was 'promoted to lead trainer. Everything at Petsmart is based on your time there ... not experience. The child was there for three months. The women told me she walked into the training room to find a rat in a cage. The child explained to her it was the best way to do other animal socialization. The child explained that she took the rat out of the cage and put her fingers over the rat's eyes ... so it wasn't scared ... and then stuck the rat in the dog's faces. The woman was in horror (she has been a trainer for years ... hired around the same time as me ... I was told I was the 6th person who has titled a dog ... so I think she may #5). She call the area trainer and the rat was removed. This woman was freaking out about this. Again this brings up another problem at Petsmart. Yes, we are suppose to follow that book word for word ... but corp has little control what is actually done. The lead trainer in my store begins recalls off leash, I do not know what she tells her students about at home practice ... but I can tell you numerous times people have been chasing these dogs around the store ... I hate to say thing but it is funny ... I don't get the whole thing ... these people are blind to failure.
I have been reamed because I use the term 'handler' ... the proper term is 'pet parent'. I feel like a fool saying that.
The trainers at Petsmart do more than train. We are expected to be cat experts, fetch carts from the parking lot, answer the phones, do various customer service, face the store (turn all the cans with the labels facing out), set up displays, get crickets (they really stink bad), and sell, sell, sell.
When I look around Petsmart I have to laugh. There are tons of products we don't recommend because they are "bad": flexi's, prong/slip/e-collars, rawhide, pig's ears, cow hooves, grocery brand feed, some of the training books, dewormers, the list goes on and on. The question always is why do you sell this stuff ... no one can answer that one!!!
Now, Petsmart is moving into Equine. That department makes me laugh. I am waiting for them to start grooming horses and doing hairstyles with bows ... the stuff they sell in equine is pretty funny.
The new thing is Petsmart is removing candy from the stores. This is the responsible thing to do. One of the manager's told me it is because Corp is afraid that someone will buy chocolate there and feed it to their dog thinking it is ok to feed because they got it at Petsmart and we all know how bad chocolate is for dogs. I don't know what to think about this one ... corp must think very one is stupid or something ... or maybe the corp office is ran by the monkeys on the CareerBuilder.com commercial. Don't know ... don't want to know.
What it comes down to at Petsmart, except for a very few of us ... it's the blind leading the blind. It's a joke. Petsmart should stick to selling stuff to the clueless.
I am a lousy Petsmart trainer ... I can't do it ... I can't lie to these people. I don't believe in the program. In my personal life I do all the don'ts of Petsmart. I have less issues with my dogs, they are happy workers and well adjusted. I know it's a job but I have too many moral conflicts with this job. Petsmart is making me lose my love for training ... by Saturday ... I will be back to training my own dog as a hobby. I can go one forever about this ... sorry.
A post off our web board:
I posted part of this in another thread and I've gotten four PM's requesting to make it a separate topic, so here goes:
The types of training classes:
Most common that I see is an actual chartered obedience club ( Aligned with
the AKC and can hold sanctioned trials and matches ) or the ob portion of
a breed or kennel club. In these classes the instructors are volunteers and
the quality varied greatly. Some times you get a good, knowledgeable trainer,
but sometimes you get a club member that may not have much experience and
doesn't really know what they're doing.
You have two types of students in these classes - club members that working
a competition dog up through the ranks, and the non-club members that have
paid for the class.
Classes run by "Pet Shop" or the branches usually suck. The instructors are usually marginal at best, and they're under the thumb of the store, so they're hamstringed in how they can even teach. Plus the class is usually full of unmotivated students being trained in a 15' x 20' area, way too small to be even able to heel.
Classes held at professional kennel sites - these tend to be more serious classes ( and *far* more expensive ) and unfortunately also range widely in trainer experience and instructional skill. You can train with hard-core top level instructors ( for beginning classes you're usually going to be trained by the assistant ) and for someone serious about training, these can be the best choice if you get the right instructor.
Now, this is just my opinion, but it doesn't hurt to ask the instructors what their experience is and what their training philosophy is.
An instructor for the AKC ob clubs should at least have a few CD titles under their belt as a minimum, and a UD or two is a sign that the instructor is at least a serious competitor, which usually translates into being a better instructor.
For the Pet Smart type instructors, don't bother, the odds of them having a title or competing is slim-to-none.
For the Kennel site/ Professionals - now *here* is where you should be asking to *see* their titles, and trophies, etc, etc. There are *far* too many "trainers" with a slick website and a lot of self-promotion that actually have no real experience in dog training. And these are not the people that you should be handing over your hard earned money to.
Also, if you're headed to a professional, ask him to show you the training
on his dog - this is an excellent way to see what the instructor is capable
of ( of course, you'll ask to make sure that the trainer actually trained
the dog and didn't buy him already titled, right? ) and how he interacts
with the dog. A instructor's dog should look sharp and willing and like
a dog that you'd want to own.
Ok, to me these are warning signs that you're not probably not getting a good instructor:
They don't own a dog or have one as a demonstration dog.
They've never titled a dog in any legitimate dog sport.
They have the "APDT" or the "CPT" and other bogus pet
training certifications plastered on their website ( but oddly..they have
no titles ... )
They have their "AKC Canine Good Citizenship Evaluator" number
all over their site ( which doesn't require any training experience to get
)
They'll always have the token "after a lifetime of dog ownership, trainer
Joe Blow has turned that experience into ... " ( well, the turned that "experience" into
no titles, apparently ... )
They have photo's of all the Football players and movie stars who have bought
dogs from them ( so those type of owners are expert judges of dog training?
Didn't think so ... )
Have their "Master Dog trainer" title boldly displayed ( ask them
from where - if it was any place besides the Tom Rose School or Triple Crown
Academy, then that title doesn't mean spit )
Make the claims like "has trained 8000 dogs in a 17 year period ( taken
from an actual site ) Do the math - that's 470 dogs a year. That is a totally
BS claim with no basis in reality, sorry.
Feels the need to note how many books that they've read on dog training (
if a trainer is so desperate to pad their claims that they're stuck telling
you about the number of books that they've read about training, you and your
dog are in trouble )
Have training or protection video's on their website that are just plain
bad. If that's the best they can do and they're willing to put it on the
internet for everyone to see, what are they going to do with *your* dog?
All this is just my opinion,but I've seen this stuff in real life soooo long
that I'm getting hard to fool now.
And I don't want y'all fooled either!
Please, you're entrusting your dog and your cash to these people, start
using a critical eye and ask *questions* before you take the step!
Another Post from our We board:
I pretended to be interested in applying as an instructor just to see what
it takes and what their real requirements were, and all it takes for PetSmart
is a 4hr video then a written test off the video, you need not have ever
even owned a dog. You don't say anything and they don't ask. I should have
investigated deeper and played the role further and taken a look to see if
that 4hr video was a Leerburg or not, LOL!
Another post from my web board on Petsmart Obedience Classes
I witnessed a class with 4 dogs; Three GSDish dogs and a rottie type dog. The dogs seemed to be all dog aggressive. The trainers solution to this was to put up an x-pen across the training area to separate the dogs. GSDs on one side and rottie on other. The GSDs went over/through the barrier to attack the rottie. Two of the GSD owners were not even in the training area so it was left to the trainer and two owners to break up a 4 dog fight.
Afterwards the trainer was upset because none of the other PetsMart employees came to help her. No physical damage was done. This is something that could have gone very very horribly wrong. I never enter a petsmart anymore with my dogs without pepper spray. Although, I do feel the need to use it on people more than dogs.
The store near me now has a boarding place with daycare. There is a play
area that will have several dogs in it at once with one employee supervising.
On a ledge in this room are an air horn and a can of that citronella dog
repellent spray. I most sincerely hope this isnt their only solution
to dogfights.
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